"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
06/12/2020 at 07:55 • Filed to: None
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"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
06/12/2020 at 07:55 • Filed to: None | 0
| 17 |
In 2018 we had a couple local guys build us a shed. They are semi-retired homebuilders, not into the whole custom home process anymore but they like building stuff. Because it can be hard to find competent builders for small projects, they are very busy - as busy as they want to be, that is.
In the case of our shed, they did nice work, for what we asked - a 3-way divided structure for firewood on the outsides and yard stuff / detritus in the middle. However, they underestimated the load of firewood that I would actually try to stack in there, and there was some deformation of the structure and a bit of curvature that shouldn’t have been.
They came and looked at it, did some good ponderin’ and thinkin’ and chin scratchin’ and decided they’d come in the spring (this was last fall) to build up the structure underneath it. No charge for labor, since they felt it was “on them” to build it for what I had specified in the first place. I’d gladly pay for the materials, so that was the arrangement.
They came back as promised, and spent several (3 or 4?) days here working hard and made significant modifications to the structure. (Side note, their “days” are usually 8-ish to 1 ish because they feel like it). To our six sono-tube concrete pilings they added EIGHT MORE for a total now of 14. They also put a double-thick LVL header down the middle, where there was nothing previously, and added some cross-bracing as well. I’m quite happy with the changes, and feel good about stacking nearly 3 cord of green wood on each end, which was the original intent.
Yesterday, we got a bill: $740. I don’t buy a ton of lumber but that just doesn’t seem like all that much, not to mention, of course, there’s no labor charge as discussed.
The thing is, we know these guys well . The main guy had two daughters who were my sister’s age and my age, and we grew up together. My father has known him (and liked him) since long before we were born, and beyond all that, these guys are honest, reliable, competent, and (as a bonus) fun to work with. I want to do right by them, and I think what they did here was above and beyond - aside from, you know, kind of under-building it originally.
Here’s the actual tl/dr question: These guys did a ton of work for no labor charge, and I’d like to treat them right, so should I pay them some labor anyway? If so, what’s the right amount? I don’t actually know what their labor rate is, to be perfectly honest, and at $740 in materials I was thinking of just doubling that and paying them $1580 for their work. OR just say “thank you” ( again) and pay them what they billed us, knowing we’ll work with them again; in fact, we’re waiting for an estimate for a screened porch that we hope to have built this fall.
What would Oppo do?
pip bip - choose Corrour
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 07:58 |
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pay the bill as is stands and promise them more work later
Wacko
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 08:00 |
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Pay what they asked for and use them again.
And thank them
haveacarortwoorthree2
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 08:02 |
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Pay the bill. Then, since you do know them well, figure out something nice to do for them - gift certificates to favorite restaurants, tickets to something, etc. Make it personalized, not just a check.
If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 08:02 |
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I’d have kept them supplied with cold beverages and some sort of homemade treat while they worked.
Kiltedpadre
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 08:03 |
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I’d pay what they billed. You could ask to clarify that they remembered to include all their cost just to be safe.
Beyond that if you know if they have a beverage of choice attach the check to a case/bottle of that.
UserNotFound
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 08:12 |
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I agree with what everyone whose said already but I just wanted to say - this story made me smile.
Also, nice shed.
Nom De Plume
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 08:27 |
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If you can afford it I’d round up to an even $1K. Everyone is happy and if you need them again they’ll be sure to overspec their design from the start.
That is a healthy bonus. Doubling their fee would not be the smart choice unless you have undeniable proof you bear some of the burden for initial design failure and they way undercut materials cost shoring it up.
shop-teacher
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 08:35 |
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I would just pay them what they asked and thank them. My dad is a semi-retired contractor, and works the kind of days you’re describing now. He’s not doing it because he needs the money, he’s doing it because he isn’t the kind of guy who can do nothing all day. He also doesn’t have a full day’s labor in him anymore, so he’ll work half a day-ish, and go home and take a nap.
You’ve got a couple of good stand-up guys there. That is sadly rare in this industry. I definitely wouldn't use anybody but them to build that porch.
Nibby
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 08:44 |
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hide their corpses under the shed
Sovande
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 08:46 |
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I’m a sucker for joist hangers and hurricane clips, neither of which I see. I also would not have used 4x4's or 6x6's as the main beam on the outside edge. Two 2x8's sistered together would be able to carry more load and be more dimensionally stable. The reason you have the sag in the top picture is not due to load, but due to the tendency of larger (especially pressure treated) lumber to get real curly as it dries. With regular framing lumber you can crown the boards, which you can’t do with center-cut lumber such as posts and 4x4's, etc.
Generally speaking, the load limit of lumber increases with the depth of the material, not the width. As such, a 2x8 can support more load horizontally than a 4x4 or 6x6 can. Further, I would have through-bolted the bracing as toe-nailing is not exactly up to snuff, especially for a load like you are expecting and on a hill .
http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/AL_21-26L.pdf
In short, I’d send them back under there with a drill, and impact gun, carriage bolts, hurricane clips, joist hangers and a palm nailer then pay them a grand.
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functionoverfashion
> Nibby
06/12/2020 at 09:01 |
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I can always count on you for the most outlandish answer, whatever the question.
Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 09:21 |
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My dad is a retired carpenter and the last few years he did a lot of small jobs. He never turned down a tip for going out of his way to do things to make the customer happy. I think an extra $500 would be a good amount. Labor on something like this would be double or triple the material cost. I WAG about $2000 labor assuming 32 hrs of work total and a rate of $65/hr.
barnie
> haveacarortwoorthree2
06/12/2020 at 10:46 |
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I’d suggest gift certificates for the lumber yard or hardware store. Those they can really use and keeps the gift on a business basis.
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Nibby
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 11:17 |
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glad to help
Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 11:27 |
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Paying “extra” is always sticky for a variety of stupid human reasons. I’d pay the bill as is (maybe in cash?) and if you want to “tip” them baked goods are usually the way to go .
davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
> functionoverfashion
06/12/2020 at 11:29 |
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Pay the bill, take them out (or host them) for a very nice meal & drinks as a thank you, and give them more work in the future.
Jim Spanfeller
> functionoverfashion
06/13/2020 at 00:02 |
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Buy them a Miata, duh.